Legislature(2001 - 2002)
03/12/2001 01:50 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 12, 2001
1:50 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Drew Scalzi, Co-Chair
Representative Hugh Fate, Vice Chair
Representative Joe Green
Representative Mike Chenault
Representative Lesil McGuire
Representative Gary Stevens
Representative Mary Kapsner
Representative Beth Kerttula
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Beverly Masek, Co-Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 72(FIN)
"An Act relating to 'take-a-child-hunting' seasons for big
game."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SB 72
SHORT TITLE:TAKE A CHILD HUNTING SEASON
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) KELLY
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/06/01 0288 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/06/01 0288 (S) RES, FIN
02/07/01 0301 (S) COSPONSOR(S): WILKEN,
THERRIAULT
02/12/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/12/01 (S) Moved CS(RES) Out of
Committee
02/12/01 (S) MINUTE(RES)
02/13/01 0354 (S) RES RPT CS 3DP 3NR SAME TITLE
02/13/01 0354 (S) DP: TORGERSON, TAYLOR, KELLY;
02/13/01 0354 (S) NR: PEARCE, LINCOLN, ELTON
02/13/01 0354 (S) FN1: ZERO(DFG)
02/23/01 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE
532
02/23/01 (S) -- Meeting Postponed to
2/26/01--
02/26/01 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE
532
02/26/01 (S) Moved CSSB 72(FIN) Out of
Committee
MINUTE(FIN)
02/26/01 0500 (S) FIN RPT CS 7DP 2NR SAME TITLE
02/26/01 0500 (S) DP: DONLEY, KELLY, GREEN,
AUSTERMAN,
02/26/01 0500 (S) WILKEN, WARD, LEMAN; NR:
HOFFMAN, OLSON
02/26/01 0500 (S) FN1: ZERO(DFG)
02/28/01 0535 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 2OR 2/28/01
02/28/01 0539 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
02/28/01 0539 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
02/28/01 0539 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING
UNAN CONSENT
02/28/01 0539 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
72(FIN)
02/28/01 0539 (S) PASSED Y16 N2 A1 E1
02/28/01 0539 (S) LINCOLN NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
02/28/01 (S) RLS AT 10:30 AM FAHRENKAMP
203
02/28/01 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
03/01/01 0560 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD
READING
03/01/01 0560 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 1
UNAN CONSENT
03/01/01 0561 (S) AM NO 1 FAILED Y5 N10 E4 A1
03/01/01 0561 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD
READING
03/01/01 0561 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y14
N1 E4 A1
03/01/01 0562 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
03/01/01 0562 (S) VERSION: CSSB 72(FIN)
03/07/01 (H) RES AT 2:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/07/01 (H) <Bill Rescheduled to 3/12/01>
03/09/01 0508 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
03/09/01 0508 (H) RES
03/12/01 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
KRIS KNAUSS, Staff
to Senator Pete Kelly
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 518
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke on behalf of the sponsor of SB 72.
GORDON WILLIAMS, Legislative Liason
Office of the Commissioner
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)
PO Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 72.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 01-19, SIDE A
Number 0001
VICE CHAIR FATE called the House Resources Standing Committee
meeting to order at 1:50 p.m. Representatives Fate, McGuire,
Green, Chenault, Stevens, Kapsner, Kerttula, and Scalzi were
present at the call to order. Vice Chair Fate made note that
Representative Masek had an excused absence.
SB 72-TAKE A CHILD HUNTING SEASON
VICE CHAIR FATE announced that the first order of business was
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 72(FIN), "An Act relating to 'take-a-
child-hunting' seasons for big game."
Number 0116
KRIS KNAUSS, Staff to Senator Pete Kelly, Alaska State
Legislature, spoke on behalf of the sponsor of the bill. Mr.
Knauss stated that SB 72 establishes an extended hunting season
for big game, excluding musk ox and bison, so that parents can
take their children hunting before the start of school, and
before the regular hunting season begins. He explained that
[CSSB 72(FIN)] establishes that the age of the adult should be
21 years or older, and that the age of the child should be
between the ages of 8 and 17. Furthermore, the bill would give
the Board of Game the authority to establish regulations on the
legislation. For example, the sponsor of the bill has
recommended that the Board of Game establish the hunting season,
and close the extended season for a few days, before starting
the regular season. The sponsor also recommended that there be
a one-tag limit during the extended season, which would limit
the take of big game.
Number 0233
CO-CHAIR SCALZI pointed out that, currently, there are a lot of
seasons that are open before the start of school. He asked Mr.
Knauss what the necessity for the bill was.
MR. KNAUSS answered that in recent years, many schools, mainly
in the Interior, are starting their year earlier than in the
past, which creates a situation whereby adults have to take
their children out of school in order to take them hunting. In
response to further questions by Co-Chair Scalzi, Mr. Knauss
said that the season proposed in SB 72 would actually precede
the regular hunting season. The bill would also give the Board
of Game the authority to "implement it in each game management
unit." Mr. Knauss explained that although many parents take
their children out of school to go hunting, one intent of the
bill is to give equal opportunity to the children whose parents
don't want to take them out of school, but still want to the
experience of hunting with them. He added that another intent
of the bill is to provide an "educational opportunity" for
parents to teach their children self-sufficiency.
Number 0408
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked if the language of the bill clearly
stated that "only" the child - not the parent, stepparent, or
legal guardian - can kill the game.
MR. KNAUSS replied that [CSSB 72(FIN)] was formed to "tighten up
a loophole" in the legislation, to prevent the adults from being
able to shoot game themselves. The youngest age a child could
be to qualify was increased to eight [so that the child would be
able to shoot the game on his or her own].
Number 0512
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the establishment of a special
season for adults to take children hunting would create a
problem with the bow-hunting season. He also mentioned the
phrase, "the early bird gets the worm," and inquired whether
allowing children to hunt prior to the regular season would
result in scaring off game for those hunters who depend on it
for their livelihood.
MR. KNAUSS answered that he would have to defer that question to
the department.
Number 0580
MR. KNAUSS, in response to questions from Representatives
McGuire and Kerttula, clarified that the minimum age of the
adult who would accompany the child should be 21, and the bill
version in which that was specified was CSSB 72(FIN).
Number 0726
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked Mr. Knauss if there presently are
any other groups that have special hunting seasons established
for them, and whether it would be constitutional to create a
special season for any particular group.
MR. KNAUSS replied that he was uncertain of the answer to both
questions.
Number 0773
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER stated that the Board of Game has
authority to "do this now," and asked why they haven't done so.
MR. KNAUSS mentioned that, in the past, there have been similar
resolutions, but could not answer why the concept was not
already established in statute.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked if the bill would apply to all game
units, or only to urban ones.
MR. KNAUSS replied that he could not answer that question, but
said that would be one of the recommendations that the
department could make to the Board [of Game].
VICE CHAIR FATE referred to a previous comment by Mr. Knauss
about the "regulations limiting the take," and asked if that
language had been tested at [Legislative Legal Counsel] for its
constitutionality. He asked:
If there's only one tag for either one of you, and you
don't know which ... one is going to get that game
animal, then, ... because you have taken, we'll say,
one week off ... out of the two weeks that you have
off for hunting, and you choose to take your son or
daughter, as it may be, in that early season. You get
a moose. Now, can you go back on your second part of
your vacation, during regular season, and get another
game?
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT clarified that according to the bill,
only the resident child can hunt. He surmised a child who did
not take game during the special season would qualify to try
again during the regular season.
MR. KNAUSS responded that any recommendations made by the
department to the Board of Game would be "within the boundaries
of what they can and can't do."
Number 1033
GORDON WILLIAMS, Legislative Liason, Office of the Commissioner,
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), appologized for the
lack of Board of Game representatives at the House Resources
Standing Committee meeting, explaining that most of them were
either out sick or in Anchorage at a Board of Game meeting. He
stated that the implementation of provisions in SB 72 would lie
with the Board of Game. He said:
So SB 72 gives the Board of Game total discretion on
establishing special youth hunts, by the words
"inappropriate areas". So it would be up to the Board
[of Game] to decide what are appropriate areas and to
set other perameters for the hunt. So they could
consider a wide variety of factors in ... establishing
... hunts, and then deciding whether a particular area
would be a good idea.
The department's view of such hunts would not be
appropriate where there is already a season prior to
the start of school. The bill speaks to ... having
seasons available before the start of school, ...
where there are seasons. So, this is the case with
virtually all caribou, sheep, goat, deer, and black
bear hunts. Currently, almost all open before the
normal school year. So we view this as primarily
aimed at moose, and it would likely be the focus of
the discussion if the bill was adopted.
We also do not believe it would be appropriate to
authorize separate youth hunts where resources do not
meet demand, and restrictions, such as lotteries, are
in place, or Tier II hunts. We don't believe the
Board [of Game] would ... view the need for extra
pressure in those areas.
Number 1136
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA commented:
It's still up to the Board [of Game], isn't it, to
make that decision, finally? So we have no absolute,
100 percent assurance that that couldn't be done; am I
right?
MR. WILLIAMS concurred. He continued:
It's the department's belief [that] it wouldn't be a
good idea, in those instances, to allow people to
avoid the lottery or Tier II provisions, and provide
an extra opportunity. ... As Representative Kerttula
pointed out, we can't say with certainty how the Board
[of Game] would develop regulations under the bill,
but there's several things we ... would probably ask
them to do. And the sponsor mentioned some of those
things in his testimony.
We [would] probably advise that they separate the
special season from the regular season, by at least
three days. So there wouldn't be the situation where
someone might go out and get established for ... the
regular hunt, just to be able to go out early and
scout out moose, and get his camp all established, and
perhaps take a moose down. ... Or if he didn't take
one, then [he would] be all ready and get a jump on
other people.
We'd also probably recommend that these hunts be
registration hunts. That would allow the department
to track participation ... [in] a much timelier
manner, and to get harvest data in a much more timely
manner, to be able to apply that to the general season
as we track -- take them -- of game in a hunt.
We would also probably recommend that we establish
this as a two-person registration hunt, with a bag
limit of one moose. There was already some discussion
there. But, in order to avoid abuses, we think that
it would be, probably, good to look at if a moose was
taken during that hunt, it would fill the tag for both
participants. And then someone would not be able to
then go back during the regular season and take an
additional animal.
We think there would be a lot of concern from the
hunting public, at large, that ... if you didn't have
a resident [or nonresident] dependent child, ... you
would not be given the same opportunity that others
might be to take an extra ... moose. ... So that
would prevent concerns we've heard about a jump in
harvest ...
Number 1284
CO-CHAIR SCALZI asked Mr. Williams if he would suggest putting
some of his recommendations into the language of the bill, or
would prefer to just let the regulations be worked out in the
future, as needed.
MR. WILLIAMS answered that ADF&G has testified on these issues
in prior committee meetings, and its recommendation to the Board
of Game would be to meet and discuss the issues together. He
said it would be a decision of the House Resources Standing
Committee, if it thought the issues should be incorporated into
the bill before it was passed out of committee.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI asked Mr. Williams to clarify that he was not
recommending that the issues just discussed should be put into
the bill.
MR. WILLIAMS indicated that Co-Chair Scalzi was correct.
Number 1324
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN revisited his earlier statement about the
possibility of a conflict regarding the bow-hunting season. He
suggested that bow hunting could result in another opportunity
for "cheating." A person could be bow hunting with his or her
child, but also have a gun available for use.
MR. WILLIAMS replied that if there was a conflict with a bow
hunt, then there would be opportunity for the public to testify,
and the issue would be reviewed by the Board [of Game].
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN inquired how many areas presently have
early-season bow hunting that is sanctioned by [the Board of
Game]. He asked if it was really common, or very rare.
MR. WILLIAMS answered that he had a copy of the regulations with
him, but did not know the answer without reading them. He
offered to research the answer for Representative Green.
Number 1397
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE stressed the importance of the
legislative body clearly stating its intent, and suggested that
Mr. Knauss take some of the specific recommendations to the
sponsor [Senator Kelly] for inclusion in the bill. She listed
some of the issues: the separation between the special season
and the regular season; the registration of two people for a
one-bag limit; and the exclusion of lottery and Tier II areas.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if Mr. Williams was aware of any
other hunting group that has been given a special hunting
season.
MR. WILLIAMS said he did not know. He stated that it was an
open question whether the Board [of Game] "had the authority."
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA indicated that there may be a potential
for conflict with the [Alaska State] Constitution, because the
idea behind the bill was unprecedented. She suggested that the
bill may be creating a preference for someone who has a child to
hunt with. She asked if the Department of Law had looked at
that issue.
MR. WILLIAMS said he would look into that.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER asked Mr. Williams if ADF&G thought that
the bill promotes sport hunting over hunting for food.
MR. WILLLIAMS replied that ADF&G is supportive of getting
children involved in hunting. He stated that one of the
department's concerns with the bill is that it will probably be
primarily targeted at moose. He added that the seasons for
moose have been late because of thick foliage, which decreases a
child's chances for a successful hunt. He explained that one of
the things that would keep children interested in hunting is a
good success rate. The ADF&G wants children to have a good
hunting experience. He also mentioned that the temperatures
have been higher, with the result that it is more problematic
for hunters to take proper care of meat.
Number 1640
REPRESENTATIVE FATE asked Mr. Knauss if the department had
considered making a trial program out of [the "take a child
hunting season"], in order to gauge what the participation level
of the program would be.
MR. KNAUSS replied that, to date, there had been no discussion
about any such program.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER mentioned an article she had read last
summer, regarding a theory that the number of school shootings
goes up when the number of young boys taken hunting by their
parents decreases. She said, "Young men have a natural tendency
toward aggression, and hunting is a real healthy way to let go
of some of that aggression." Representative Kapsner added that
she is in favor of taking young people hunting; however, she is
concerned that the bill is aimed at "micromanaging the Board of
Game."
Number 1795
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN concurred with Representative Kapsner. He
said that he supports teaching children to hunt, stating that he
has hunted since he was six; however, he is concerned with
adding a special season for children to hunt.
Number 1825
CO-CHAIR SCALZI referred to a previous statement by the
department that the primary target in the proposed bill would be
moose. He said there are "ample opportunities to hunt other
species during this early August period." He stated that in
order for him to support the bill, he would first like to see
the other recommendations of the department incorporated into
the bill. He added that he believes in taking his child out of
school for activities such as commercial fishing.
Number 1905
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA concurred "with the co-chairs." She
said she wanted to avoid "running against a possible ...
constitutional issue in even allowing it to happen."
Number 1935
VICE CHAIR FATE concluded that it was the consensus of the House
Resources Standing Committee to hold the bill and hand it back
to the sponsor for further work. He summarized that the
committee agreed that the bill supported a healthy concept, but
needed the testimony of this meeting incorporated into its
language. He announced that SB 72 would be held over.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2032
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:20 p.m.
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